Scott Johnson: Hello.

Monica Gauci: Hello Scott.

What's your name?

My name is Monica Gauci.

Hello Monica Gauci. And where did you grow up and where do you live now?

I grew up in a small town in South Australia and I now live close to Byron Bay in northern rivers part of New South Wales in Australia.

Nice. And what's been the main spiritual or contemplative practice of your life?

As a contemplative practice the main thing has been a consistent meditation practice and I feel that my asana practice which has been only probably for about two years longer than that so I started doing an asana practice in seriously in 1979 and I started meditating in 1980 and so my asana practice I feel very much helps me with that meditation practice in developing my focus.

So would you say that your practice is contemplative like yoga and meditation are kind of something that's you do for that focus?

My meditation practice is very much a spiritual path for me.

My asana practice really gives me the tools to be able to do that spiritual path much better.

I do see the two as being quite distinctly separate even though yeah I feel like the asana gives me everything the pratyahara, the dharana but I find that the dhyana for me I need to sit still and consciously go inward to connect for that and also for that those samadhi experiences.

So what was the reason for a spiritual practice in the first place?

Interestingly so I was only 20 and I actually had everything that I'd thought I ever wanted in life so I had a beautiful relationship I lived in the country I had almost one of every animal that you could keep including cows and goats and so on and I suddenly was really really unhappy to the point of being totally depressed and luckily my partner at the time realized that what I was actually lacking was a spiritual connection and so he introduced me to a great spiritual teacher who I still have contact with and I learned how to go inside myself and make that connection with my deep self.

What was it that the teacher showed you?

He showed me a series of meditation techniques which were called knowledge are still called knowledge and it's really that knowledge of yourself so yeah you know there are various I realize now that there are various yoga techniques but they were very much put together in a particular practice.

I'm really interested in this kind of like before and after. What was the… do you think the change was? Did you… once you did it did you go oh now this is how I'm gonna live this is how I'm gonna be.

Initially I had expectations that meditation was like bright flashing lights and this wow experience so initially I was like I'm not experiencing anything and then one day I was sitting and I was just totally overcome with my first experience I realized then of peace and I realized that I had never experienced peace and I realized that I was then on the right path I realized that that was a really important step and actually that particular teacher Prem Rawat says peace is the perfume of God and it was so true because I was getting close that I could smell it.

Peace is the perfume of God, did he say that to you?

He said that in a particular talk that I was listening to yeah and that resonated yeah well it resonated as the truth because that was my first experience of my first really spiritual experience where I was just sitting alone you know I had had other experiences of oneness with nature and so on but just me and nothing else and so what was the what was the after you doing this thing called the knowledge right this is the meditation technique what was the was it a gateway or did you do it for a long period of time?

Yeah I don't exclusively do that meditation practice now I do other ones but yeah it's something that I still sometimes do yeah

And what was that what was the introduction into other techniques? what was the introduction into asana for you?

Well I did my first hatha yoga class when I was 18 but then when I was 19 I did a yoga retreat and met all of these young people who were yoga teachers and I realised that you could be young and be a yoga teacher so I left the town where I was living and I moved to Adelaide the capital of South Australia to do a yoga teacher training but then I met the teacher because there was only IYTA International Yoga Teachers Association then that did formal trainings and I met the teacher who was doing it and I just knew that she couldn't be my teacher so then it was a little lost but then I discovered a wonderful at the time a younger teacher which was Shandor Remete and he was amazing he took me under his wing as his apprentice because I was going to every class and he realised I guess that I was really keen and told me if I was interested I should be there tomorrow the next morning at four o'clock which was quite a challenge because I normally went to bed at one o'clock but yeah and then I started doing I would did yoga with him all day every day.

What was Shandor teaching?

At that time he was teaching Iyengar.

What year was this?

This was 19… 1979.

Wow.

Yeah.

So he was teaching Iyengar in Adelaide. How many people were practicing?

It was quite a few people but he was pretty well I think besides the IYTA he was the only yoga teacher in town that I knew of.

Yeah so I would do yoga all day with him and then I would go and waitress in the only vegetarian restaurant in town.

That's quite a boon isn't it? Like happening across a teacher like Shandor Remete.

So fortunate and he was he never ever charged me a cent and he fed me. He fed me his glorious Hungarian food in the breaks his homemade bread and his goats milkshakes.

What did you learn from him?

Discipline because I think that I was a very scattered person and he I was going to say he gently let me unfold because I was actually really stiff even though I've always been a bit hyper-mobile and but I was actually very stiff because you can be hyper-mobile in your joints and stiff in your soft tissues. But we used all sorts of torturous props so in what but he was gentle in his approach in his approach in that he just allowed me to be where I was and to slowly release a lot of my samskaras. I did a lot of crying back then in those days.

Yeah and then what was the evolution from Shandor?

So then I actually I lived in the Adelaide Hills for a long time and then I started teaching myself.

That was where I lived on the property with all the animals and started my spiritual path and then I ended up moving overseas to Switzerland and I was quite daunted because Shandor had given me the name of a yoga teacher but he was an old an older man with a big long white beard and I think he taught Shivananda yoga but we did about six gentle postures in a two-hour class but most of the time with him lecturing in German and I hadn't learned German yet and so I fairly well gave up but then and nobody did yoga in Switzerland it was just considered way weird and so I started teaching what I called stretch classes and some of my students would say why do we do a headstand in a stretch class and I would say because it's really good for you so yeah and so I was there for almost five years and then I remember seeing a Jungian psychologist because I was having a very hard time and I would cry to her and say I just want to go back to Australia and teach yoga which was then what I did and that was when I discovered a Ashtanga vinyasa yoga.

Has your life from 20, from that point where your your partner said you need to do this meet this meditation teacher; has your life then always been compelled by the spiritual direction?

It has absolutely and even when I met Gregor you know for both of us our relationship is so harmonious because we have those same values that our spiritual life is really important so we very much did come together as two individual pillars and we still exist in that way and yet you know and so our relationship is very harmonious.

Have you like, like... it's really interesting to meet someone who's like from 20 gone I just want to live a spiritual life without kind of going off in that direction. You know, have you ever kind of been swayed to kind of get a job like follow some kind of other path?

I mean I've had jobs along the way well mainly in Switzerland because when I was in South Australia I mainly was a yoga teacher and then in Switzerland I ended up managing this fitness centre where I taught the stretch classes and then when I came back to Australia I started teaching yoga again, Iyengar and then I discovered a Ashtanga and then I did stop from one day to the next teaching Iyengar and I practiced a Ashtanga very concentratedly for a year and went to Mysore and then began teaching.

So there's this really I mean I'm really fascinated by especially in them like in the 80s as well I like yeah you were weird if you did yoga.

This is it but like but I'm really compelled by this search within you for something.

Mmm yeah I I don't know where that comes from apart from perhaps it's a past life you know progression of evolution of this particular being.

What's been what was your what was your take on the Ashtanga vinyasa sequence in relationship to your spirituality?

I and it's it's probably because I had a strong spiritual path originally that the Ashtanga vinyasa for me has been has fulfilled mainly the hatha yoga aspect of health, breathing, concentration, turning my awareness inward so yeah focus of my mind and so my meditation practice has always been a very separate thing.

In fact I was saying in the class this morning here to people that it's so important that we have this intimate relationship with ourself because if if you live in the same I was actually saying how your body is a sacred sight because the divine dwells within it and if you live in the same house as somebody that does not predict that you will have a good intimate relationship with them and so I personally feel that we actually have to put effort into developing that relationship with our deep self.

I think the asana takes you so far but I don't think that it is as effective as you actually putting that concentrated focus and effort into developing that relationship.

When you talk about the divine in you, how did that kind of come about for with your, with you, with you recognising that divinity in yourself, and could you talk a little bit more about what divinity in us is?

I recognised often in my life that I lacked confidence in the world, but I've always been totally secure about who I am as an expression of the divine. In my meditation practices—and this is why I believe it's so important—when I have gone really deep, I have experienced that I don't end here. There is an aspect of me that is continuous, infinite, eternal, and part of that greater consciousness. This is one of the reasons I love people, animals, our Earth, and the elements—because I recognise that we are all one and the same. That realisation makes me feel very secure. My experience of that eternal, infinite energy within us is mainly one of love. It is a very loving presence, which is why, even in my most challenging and saddest times, I still have trust and faith. I have experienced this ultimate feeling of goodness.

I remember, as a little girl, I used to pray, and my main prayer was that I wanted to be good—mainly because I was often in trouble with my parents! But I realise that somewhere, all of us want that because it is our nature. Our nature is goodness; our nature is actually love. That's why we all want to feel love because it is who we are. It's the reason we all search for perfection, but that perfection is not on the outside—it's on the inside.

Thank you for sharing that. That's quite profound. Where are you now with that, looking back at yourself from when you were younger? Like, you’re almost 70—that’s a long time. How do you see yourself now compared to that young woman, who first met these teachings, but was confused?

She was very confused, very scattered, and very unable to focus. Something this same teacher, Prem Rawat, would say stuck with me because a lot of people who had been with him for a long time were proud and bragged about that. He would say, "You always put the wettest logs closest to the fire." I apply this to myself; I needed yoga—that's why I've been practicing for a long time. It doesn't make me any greater, but it does make me more experienced. However, I needed yoga badly, and I am so very, very grateful that I discovered it early in life. I don't know what I would have ended up doing, but I don’t think it would have been good for this person!

There's this beautiful wisdom that yoga gives us.

Definitely, definitely. Yoga gives us great awareness.

Yes, if you develop your awareness. One of the great gifts of asana practice is that it teaches awareness, but you can't just leave it on the mat. It doesn’t serve anybody else if you're only aware of your own body. You need to let that awareness translate into your whole life so that you are aware of how your actions affect everything and everyone. Everything you think, say, and do has a ripple effect. That means we all need to be responsible. I take my teaching very seriously, which is one of the reasons I continue to study myself. I always feel like I have to stay up to date because, you know, with my background as a chiropractor, I incorporate the latest medical research alongside the wisdom of Eastern practices.

Beautiful. Thank you, Monica. That’s amazing. If there’s one thing you've learned about yourself that you'd like to share with others, what would it be?

There are so many things, but the most important thing I encourage others to do is something I’ve already mentioned: developing a real, intimate relationship with yourself. It doesn't even require a lot of time, just intention. You need to sit and have that "date" with God, your Creator, or the Divine. It’s like being in a loving relationship—you need to embrace that other person and say "I love you," even if you’re running out the door. You have to do that with yourself because that’s where it starts.

This is your wisdom; it’s your divine guide in life. One thing I’ve done really well my whole life is to listen to my heart. That’s what has brought me to where I am today, and I consider my life incredibly fortunate. I live in one of the most beautiful places on Earth, I have an incredible partner, and I am very fortunate. My life isn’t perfect—no one's is—but there’s a deep quality to it, and it’s rich on the inside. All of that has come from following my heart.

When I cried to that psychotherapist, "I just want to teach yoga," that was my heart speaking, not my head. I remember at the time, I had built a great job for myself, and everyone said, "You must be crazy to leave this job!" But for me, it was nothing because I knew I needed to be truly happy and content in my heart.

Thank you so much, Monica. That was beautiful.

You’re so welcome. Thank you for letting me share.

Scott: Hello.

Joanne: Hello.

What's your name?

Joanne Darby.

Hello Joanne Darby. Where did you grow up and where do you live now?

I grew up in Montreal, Canada and I'm still, that's my main house. We have another property in Costa Rica which [my husband] Darby loves very much during the winter time mostly.But this is our home, it's still Montreal, Canada.

Beautiful. And what has been the main contemplative or spiritual practice of your life?

Well, you know, when I started to travel, I was a traveller naturally, but after when I started to discover the spiritual part, then my first focus was a bit of the study of Buddhism, but then I got more into the Hindu philosophy, and that's been the background of my life basically.

So like the Buddhist, Hindu philosophical process.

Very, very similar, it's the same basically. And Buddhists are more structured. Hinduism is like so wild and so vast. There's a non-stop learning from the Hindu literature and philosophy.

Do you mind me asking, did you go travelling to discover spirituality or did you just go travelling?

No, when I started my journey, I started when I was 26 years old.

What year was that if you don't mind me asking?

That was '76 and I was definitely a traveller. I gave all my money to my mother and I said, I'm going to be travelling for six months, so here's finding money, send it to me. And my travels lasted eight years basically.

But the beginning, yes, for the first couple of years, all I did, I did so many countries in Europe and Africa and India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and all these countries for about, I would say about two years. And it's in Bali that I said, oh, maybe I've seen enough.

But I read that book, Siddhartha, by Herman Hess, and I realised, wow, there's a spiritual side of myself that I've never really looked into. It was there but never tried to go deeper and tried to find what's the purpose of life and why we're here and what life is all about.

So I went back to Dharamsala and studied when the Dalai Lama was there at that time. I studied with some Lama for a few months and then I learnt a lot.

It was an interesting time because one day I was reading about death, that death can happen to you any time and there was a major earthquake happening at that same moment. My room started to collapse a bit and the monks got us out of their place.

Many, many people died.

And I'm like, wow, you know, this never left me because death is always there. We never know but you have to be ready. Do you feel that?

I've got this lovely image, of just going back on what you shared there, this lovely image of you sitting in Bali reading Siddhartha and it being like a moment going, I'm away, I can follow this.

Yes, because when I was reading the story of the man and seeing that his path was first, was spiritual life, then he went into a male mundane life and then later he got tired of it, you get tired of all this abundance of all this fancy living and then he started to go back into searching, into finding God or his own self.

Yes, and then again, so you were able to, because you were away and you were in that part of the world where you could start to look at yourself and go to places where it's real life, you were able to really follow that.

Oh yeah, because when you're in India, the country is so ingrained with spirituality, you can't, it's there, it's in you, you're part of it and you have time, of course you don't work, so you have time, you don't have a family, you have time to analyze yourself and go into meditation if you can and other aspects of the, you can search, search in the inside.

And then again this moment when you were at the earthquake, another moment about death where you go, oh it's fleeting, right, that can almost send you deeper, right?

Yes, and it never left me, because you never know.

You hear of people getting car accident or anything and if your spirit is not in the right space, your karma is not so, so good, you know, you never know, so it's a very interesting experience.

So how did that experience compel you then after the earthquake? Where did you go, what did you do next?

Oh yes, because that, the early, my health was starting to go down because there is not so, a healthy place to live and there was months soon coming also, so I met, I saw somebody on a roof doing some asanas and I said, where did you learn, what did you do, what are you doing?

And he said, oh I learned this in Pondicherry in the south of India in an ashram called Gitananda and he says, they're starting a course now, very shortly, I said, oh maybe that's the time to go.

And so I went down there and I stayed six months, it's like the whole kit of yoga, you know, a bit of asana, a bit of chanting, but it was a big, a lot of shatkarma, some fasting, everything was there, but it was really a deep cleansing for me, especially after so many years of travelling.

So then I got even more, even more deeper in the philosophy of Hindu philosophy and when the course finished I went to, one of the teachers was Vish Vanat, which was Pattabhi Jois’s nephew, which lived in Bangalore and I went there and studied with him for a couple of weeks and he was teaching me every day only Sri Anima Skaar, that's all I did for two weeks and then he said, go and meet my uncle in Mysore, so that's when I met Pattabhi Jois, I went there and he says, come tomorrow for the class and that's when I met Darby, Darby was there for a week before me and some French students, very small group, four or five students and I said, oh, I might try this for a month or so, see what happens and then I really got into it, you know, and so I learned because Pattabhi Jois at that time had very few students, he was teaching us very quickly and my body was quite supple because of all the cleansing so I could just move on, move on for me, it was kind of no pain, just kept on learning new pastures, of course, it was very, very interesting and Darby was there and I kind of got friend and then Pattabhi Jois.

One time Darby left and when he came back he comes to me, Darby needed a place to stay, so he comes to me, he says, Darby's a good man and Darby needs a home, a place to stay and I was living in Pattabhi Jois's back house, so he says, oh, Darby can live with you and I'm like, oh, you know, I didn't expect this but it happened and we were friend already and then from being friend we became lover and that's what happened and he married us and so this story of us started in Mysore in 1979 or 1980

It sounds like when you're travelling, I'm reminded about going travelling, you're on this amazing process just seeing what happens.

Yes, you live for the moment, you know, things change, you're always, that's why I love travelling You meet new people, you see new mentality, you absorb everything that is around you It's like we're not, it's so beautiful to be able to travel, I mean, it's quite a blessing You had those, it sounds like those years when you were in India, travelling in Asia They were really focused on spiritual practice though Oh yeah, even with Pattabhi Jois we were always reading the Mahabharata, Ramayana, the Bhagavad Gita We were constantly reading those scriptures so eventually it rubs into us, you know, you don't, you can't deny it

What did you, if you could expand on how the philosophy helped you understand yourself, what would you say?

You know, because books like Ramayana and all this, it's like our Mahabharata Every aspect of life is described and how the reaction of the people towards that event, you know Some are good reactions, some are bad reactions and you learn from that, that oh, this is how you react to that type of reaction, to situation And I think it brings us a lot of knowledge about life and how to accept what happens and how to react to different situations

We also, in our new practice of Kriya Yoga, we read the Bhagavad Gita every day, one chapter every day And even that, every day you repeat, I mean how many times I've read the Bhagavad Gita, it's been over ten years every day, one chapter You know, you read it one day, something, you read something, next day is a little different But there's always something out of those scriptures that come

And I suppose because you're reading the same thing over and over again, each time you read it, it chisels in a little bit differently.

Yes, definitely, depending on the opening of your mind, you know The mind, our Kriya teacher always says, you know, try to open your consciousness, you know Our consciousness is very limited, and with meditation and with practice, you will try to open it And you see more and more and more deeper into yourself and your universe

So what was the movement out of India, Asia and into some kind of more normal life like?

Whew, that's, you know, when I had my second child, my mother said, that's enough, you have no more money, you come back home So we had to go back to Canada, and we needed to work, look after family, and that was the challenge You know, living in India, learning yoga, you know, it was all, wow, this is life, you know, you don't want to do anything else But when you go back in the West, in a total different environment, we were vegetarian, my family is like, what are you doing, you know We were, don't forget it's in the 80s, people were not vegetarian in those days, practicing yoga, what is this, you know And we had to work to financially, and one of the teachers, like Yuteshwar always says, keep your spirit in the sky But keep your two feet on the ground, you know, you cannot just float around the world, you have to work and make a living for you and your family So we both had to work, which is a very difficult time, but on the other hand taught us a lot about

What was difficult about it?

You're going back to normal life, stress of working every day, we were not very little practicing yoga because we had not the time and the energy And meeting people that were not into the yoga world, you know, there's some good people, but some, you know, so we were like strangers in our own country.

Did you let go of the whole of like study, which is like reading as well?

Well, I had very little time, I had two children, and when I was 42 I got a third child, so I had three children to look after And that's a, that's a dharma in itself, you know. But I always kept the Buddhist teaching of compassion, you know, that stayed always with me, you know, the kindness, love. That kind of teaching always stayed very deep in me, so I tried, you know, you try to be, understand and be compassionate to people who don't understand what you, who you are and what you're doing

And I suppose compassionate for yourself as well because of all the kind of changes that are happening for you, right?

Yes, it was difficult time, and in fact when I had the opportunity, when we met Pattabhi Jois in New York in 2000 and he told us, "Oh, if you want a certification, come back to India." It was like impossible, it was like not possible to go. We didn't have the finance, but he, we managed to get the money and when we went back to India, there was no way I told Darby I don't want to come back, and my oldest son with us was with us and he wanted to study yoga.

So, the universe sent me an inheritance from my aunt that same time I was there, so I said, "That's it, I can't stay in Mysore’.” It's the sign That's what the universe does to you, you know If you're meant to go do something that is for you, for your path, the universe will send it to you Like from nowhere .

So that gave you, almost like the universe said, "No, you have to keep, you can practice again now" You've done this part now, here's something back for you...

So I managed to stay five years, travelling to world, and Darby came to India all the time and I went to Canada when my son had a summer holiday, my youngest one And this way we met people from around the world, you know So afterwards, when I came back to Canada, we started to teach internationally because we met a lot of international people.

So you travelled for five years from 2001?

Not travel, I stayed in India five years with Pattabhi Jois and that was the time when he moved from Lakshmipurum The first year he was still in Lakshmipurum with a small group of 12 students in a room to Gokulam when they were able to put 50-60 people. So I was there during that transition.

And Darby was in...

He would come like a couple months a year, and Mia would go to Canada a couple months a year, and we did that for about five years.

How old were the children?

My young one was nine years old at that time, and he went to Indian school for five years. He was doing great, it was interesting for him.

Amazing…

Yeah, but when he came back to Canada, we went to college and university, so he did well.

This is really powerful, so I love this fact that you realised you needed to be there, so you just decided to stay.

Yeah, there's just no way, I was so happy to be in Mysore.

And also that Darby supported you.

This is also a blessing, I mean, he's a good man He was, I'm sure, some husband, when I say no way you're coming back home, but he supported me And also he was able to come, and for him too was a good opportunity to come in Mysore all the time.

So it sounded like, what happened after that, what happened after those five years?

Well, I went back home because finance were a bit not so good again, my inheritance was over. So I went back to work for a couple of years, and then Darby started to travel, and he wanted me to travel with him. So my boss said, you want to travel, you want to work, you know, so I said I want to travel with Darby. So then we managed, we've been travelling together since 2011 or something like that, nine even.

And how's that been, when you look at that travelling now, that you're doing now, compared to what you were doing from 79 to 84 and you've got that big chunk in between, how does it feel now to be doing the travelling and the teaching and stuff like that?

Well, in 2011, we met our Kriya Yoga teacher, that was after Pattabhi Jois died. Because when Pattabhi Jois was alive, he was kind of our guide, our guru, and when he died, we said, we maybe need something more spiritual, more deeper than just asana. Even if you read, it's not, it doesn't, you just don't get it, you know So when we met that teacher, it's been a whole new journey He was, he brought us an old Kriya Yoga, it's called, and he brought us a whole new dimension We can do one hour, two hour, three hour, it's up to us, he wants us to increase but of course, there's time factor and other things, but this is our main practice now. Because at 75, you know, you don't feel like doing advanced series here in no way, you know. You're happy with just breathing in your practice, slow, you know, slow practice Mostly focused on the breath I mean, I still have the flexibility, but I don't have that strength to keep going for hours. So we do this, this Kriya Yoga practice for one, two hours a day and plus the asanas, so this is kind of enough. And also reading the Gita and other scriptures.

So this is kind of, you know, at this time in my life I'm very happy I'm very, feel blessed and very grateful for what happened in my life And, you know, I can feel still that with these practice, it's just growing It's like a seed that is planted and it's growing You know, you cannot hope for enlightenment overnight, you know It's something that grows and when you have to purify, purify your soul And it comes with time and with when the universe thinks you're ready for it

Beautiful, thank you Joanne. So if you would share one thing that you've discovered about yourself All the way through that period from 1979 to now If you could share one thing that you've learned about yourself, what would you say?

Just to be grateful for what happens to you all the time And also, you know, things are sometimes good, sometimes are not so good But you have to always look at the positive side and the present is always the most important. Because a lot of people live in the past or in the future But what's happening now, that's what will guide your future And always keep a very loving positive attitude towards life And be always grateful and thankful for what the universe gives us

Thank you Joanne, it was beautiful, thank you so much...